In this rare and intimate episode, Ramit takes the hot seat alongside his wife, Cassandra, as they’re interviewed by their close friend Julie Nguyen.
Together, Ramit and Cass pull back the curtain on how they navigate money behind the scenes—from prenup negotiations and separate finances to the regular money meetings that keep them aligned. They open up about the challenges they’ve faced as a couple and reveal how, despite Ramit’s career, they’re just as susceptible to money issues as any other couple on this podcast.
This conversation is an honest look at what it really takes to build a true financial partnership—and a marriage that lasts.
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Transcript
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[00:00:00] Ramit: Cass underplays how frustrated she was. You were really frustrated.
[00:00:04] Cass: Oh, it pisses me off. It really makes my blood boil.
[00:00:08] Ramit: I remember that moment where the blood leaves your face. And I realized I violated my own rule from Chapter 9 of my own book where I say, talk about it early, and it was true.
[00:00:18] Cass: I think of the things that we’ve gone through in our marriage, and it’s been really tough sometimes.
[00:00:24] Ramit: It was pretty hard. It was hard because I’m like, “Why are we not combining our finances?”
[00:00:30] Cass: I wanted to do it on my own, to prove to myself and to prove to Ramit like, I’m fine on my own.
[00:00:36] Host: Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?
[00:00:43] Cass: Lighten up on the rules.
[00:00:44] Host: Ooh.
[00:00:46] Ramit: Okay. That’s never going to happen.
[00:00:47] Cass: Times when we have had fights and then the next morning we have a money meeting, I’m like, “Oh, this [Bleep] money meeting.”
[00:00:54] Ramit: We have our own challenges. Years into getting married, and it’s hard.
[00:01:01] Host: We’ve been joking over the last few days about what your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.
[00:01:05] Ramit: Yeah. What is it? Oh, is it happening right now? Oh my God.
[00:01:09] Host: Welcome to the Money for Couples show. I am your host today, Julie Nguyen, and today’s guests are Ramit and Cass.
[00:01:17] Cass: Let’s go.
[00:01:18] Ramit: I’m way more nervous about this than any podcast I’ve ever done.
[Narration]
[00:01:21] Ramit: I’ve been told I need to work on being more vulnerable, so today I’m doing something I have never done, and it made me really nervous, more nervous than shooting my Netflix show, more nervous than going on tour.
[00:01:34] On today’s episode, my wife Cassandra and I are in the hot seat. We are being interviewed by my longtime friend, Julie Nguyen. We wanted to do this podcast because people are always asking how Cassandra and I manage our money. How do we actually do it behind the scenes? How does it work if you make different amounts of money or you have a prenup or you saw money differently? And for years, I’ve kept that private. But today, I’m in the hot seat, and so is Cassandra.
[00:02:05] The truth is that our relationship, like a lot of yours, is complex. We come from different backgrounds. We kept separate finances for years. We both run our own businesses, different incomes, strong opinions about money, and a prenup. We got a lot of things to talk about.
[00:02:23] But this episode is not just about the hard stuff and the differences in how we see money. It’s also about how to bring those differences together, how you can learn and laugh and mess up and still stay connected. So today, in part so that I can be more vulnerable with you, I hand it over the mic.
[00:02:42] Julie is one of my best friends. She was also a roommate. She knows all of my embarrassing stories. She’s also known Cassandra since we met. So let’s get into it.
[Interview]
[00:02:54] Cass: Julie, you have known Ramit a very long time.
[00:02:58] Ramit: We have a long history, like friends, classmates, roommates, professional, contacts, all of it. And yeah, it’s been awesome.
[00:03:08] Host: It feels like just yesterday you were recording these YouTube videos in the bedroom right next to mine, and every time I couldn’t find my makeup mirror– I was trying to do my makeup– I would go in and it would be on Ramit’s desk because it had a vanity light on it. And that’s what he used to light those YouTube videos.
[00:03:25] Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?
[00:03:32] Ramit: Wow. Good question.
[00:03:34] Cass: I think one is around the rules.
[00:03:37] Ramit: Yeah. I’m more like–
[00:03:39] Cass: We set a rule. We keep it. And I’m like, “We’re going to have to revisit sometimes.”
[00:03:45] Ramit: And I’m like, “What’s that word?” I never heard that.
[00:03:47] Cass: And it’s okay if we like break the rule and stuff, because sometimes we need to. So that’s one.
[00:03:53] Ramit: I do think that you really like to blend money and feelings, money and where are we in our relationship. And I think that shows up a lot. And for me, I’m just like, “Let’s hit this number question that we have.” We need to answer this question about which account should this be in. And I think that both of us have tried to meet in the middle and come up with creative solutions for it. Sometimes you really just need to talk about it.
[00:04:21] Cass: I don’t think that’s ever going to change either. It’s just one of those things it’s not worth re-discussing all the time, and that’s okay. But for me personally, they do coexist. And times when we have had fights and then the next morning we have a money meeting, I’m like, “Oh, this [Bleep] money meeting. I don’t want to have it right now.” And so it will always just coexist for me. Whereas you can compartmentalize. Yeah.
[00:04:46] Ramit: Also, I think there have been times, especially when I was writing my book where I’m supposed to send the agenda out for the money meeting and I didn’t. In fact, I let it go for like over a month sometimes. And Cass would bring it up like, “Hey, you’re supposed to be in charge of this. You would never miss a meeting at work, ever. So why are you missing this meeting?”
[00:05:11] And when she told me that, I was like, “Oh [Bleep], you’re right. Let me fix it.” And I did fix it for a while, but then it went back and then she brought it up again. And finally, I was very embarrassed because here I am writing a book about Money for Couples, and I’m not even following up by setting the freaking money meeting that I’m writing about.
[00:05:31] Yes, it’s important to me. Why am I not following through on this thing? I would never miss an equivalent meeting at work. And it’s so crazy the thing that I realized was our meetings were scheduled at 7:00 PM. What work meeting am I scheduling at 7:00 PM? None. Because by that time we’re tired or somebody had to go out for a dinner meeting or something like that.
[00:05:53] So I was like, “Okay. As crazy as this sounds, I think that one of the reasons is that we’re not taking this seriously because it’s at 7:00 PM. I’m not taking it– so can we move it?” And she was like, “Okay.” So we moved it to 9:00 AM on this one day, and that is what it deserves.
[00:06:13] It deserves to be in business hours so that we are both fresh, ready to go. We talked about what’s in that meeting. We simplified that, but it’s the time that made the difference.
[00:06:25] Cass: And I think for me, because you had missed a few of them to the point where I could feel the resentment building– because I took it personally because it’s connected for me. And so at one point I was just like, “Okay, I’ve addressed it with him. He’s an adult. He can figure it out.” And you did. So I had to let you go off on your own and do it.
[00:06:49] Ramit: Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:50] Cass: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:29] Host: I’m wondering, was there ever a money conversation you guys had that was the hardest one, where maybe it almost tore you apart?
[00:06:37] Ramit: I’m sweating thinking about it right now. Yes, a prenup.
[00:06:40] Cass: What are you going to say?
[00:06:43] Ramit: A prenup.
[00:06:45] Cass: I was going to say prenup as well.
[00:06:50] Ramit: 100%. Prenup, first time I brought it up, I remember I had talked to so many people, gotten advice, planned what I was going to say, and I was very nervous about it. And you received it really well. I remember what you said. “Hey, I wasn’t expecting this, but I don’t know much about it, but I’m willing to learn.”
[00:07:10] I was like, “Wow, amazing.” For me, I knew we were getting married, so I’m not trying to negotiate this in a way that I come out winning and she loses. It was like, we’re in this together, so my natural inclination is, “I want to propose something that is so generous, there can be no question about what I want from this.”
[00:07:40] And I remember because I was like, “I want you to never have to worry about money because we don’t have to worry about money. We get this amazing opportunity to live our Rich Life and help our family and things like that.”
[00:08:05] So lawyers put together this thing, and I was like, cool. This is going to be great. It was not. And I was shocked because I’m like, “Whoa.” And we’re talking about big numbers. And we started going back and forth and I was very confused, very hurt because I’m like, I’m not trying to trick anybody here. And I think that was when it started to get very difficult.
[00:08:30] And it all changed when you said like, “Hey, this isn’t really going well. Let’s go see somebody.” And then we walked down the street to that therapist just like we found them on Yelp. And that question she asked us, like, “How do you see money?” And that really opened up conversations that we hadn’t been able to have because my answer was like, “Growth, of course.” Look at the compounding. And her answer was safety. Like, “Huh.”
[00:09:06] Cass: I was like, “I don’t want to be possibly divorced, sitting outside of a house with rain coming down and dark clouds all over.”
[00:09:13] Ramit: And I was like, “Look at these numbers. That’s literally impossible.” But in retrospect, you were not asking me to pull out a [Bleep] spreadsheet. You were feeling this. Looking back, I needed to listen to what you were saying. I should have been asking more questions.
[00:09:32] I should have used the freaking wheel of emotions because I didn’t know how to describe my feelings. I wasn’t raised talking about my feelings. And you also needed to become more adept with numbers and to be able to merge between feelings and numbers and logistics.
[00:09:53] Cass: Yeah. And I’ll never forget something Ramit said to me during that time. You were like, “I really need you to get better at money.” And I took that very seriously because deep down inside I was like, “I know I’m not that great at money. I could get better.” And so that’s when I started reading the books, hired a coach, journaling. All the things.
[00:10:13] Ramit: She hired a coach. I never even asked her who the coach was, because I’m afraid if I find out who it is, I’m be so [Bleep] mad. Who is this coach who’s talking about money psychology that you hired? But in retrospect, that was totally the right move. You can’t learn from somebody who you’re talking to about this. You have to find your own way. And you did it. You put in tons of work. I remember you would lose your breath when we were talking about money.
[00:10:37] Cass: Yeah. I would physically feel it. Yeah, anxious and stuff.
[00:10:41] Ramit: You would run out of breath, and that doesn’t happen anymore.
[00:10:44] Cass: I think a lot of our experiences from that bled into our marriage, and until we started having those tougher conversations about why do you really feel that way, and what’s beneath that, we started to uncover, for me at least, it was a lot because of what happened in the prenup and how I felt at that time.
[00:11:05] And thinking back to the prenup, I feel like I was a completely different person then. I was more scarce with money, so I didn’t think abundantly with like, I can earn more. I can start a business. I can do this and that. And so I was like, “Okay, I need to keep what’s mine. My mine, my mine, my mine.”
[00:11:24] And Ramit was always very like, “This is why I’m doing this.” And he always explained why. And so the prenup, because I didn’t grow up with anyone who had prenups around me, I had to do my own research. And then the advice online is horrible for women as well. And so really sifting through all of that info was tough. But yeah, the prenup was really tough.
[00:11:35] Host: We’ve been joking over the last few days about what your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.
[00:11:40] Ramit: Yeah. What is it? Oh, is it happening right now? Oh my God.
[00:11:43] Host: And your team was able to send me, so we are going to dig into the numbers, your CSP.
[00:11:46] Ramit: Oh, wow. You know what? I’m not even phased because I know you don’t have it.
[00:11:50] Host: Oh.
[00:11:51] Ramit: I [Bleep] know it. I know that. It’s called confidentiality, people.
[00:11:53] Host: Damn.
[00:11:54] Ramit: Although our CSP would make no sense.
[00:11:56] Cass: Yeah, it doesn’t make sense.
[00:11:58] Ramit: It would make no sense. We have no assets, aside from investments. But we have– what is the biggest asset? Like a sweater?
[00:12:02] Cass: Yeah. Maybe.
[00:12:04] Ramit: I don’t know.
[00:12:06] Cass: Jewelry.
[00:12:07] Ramit: Yeah. We have basically very few assets, and yeah, it just makes no sense.
[00:12:12] Cass: Yeah. It wouldn’t make any sense, but I see you sweating.
[00:12:15] Ramit: I know. I don’t want that [Bleep] CSP. People will be like, “What? Why do you spend that much on guilt-free spending? Because I like to travel.
[00:12:25] Host: I wouldn’t want people to see your CSP. I basically know I’m close enough to you guys, but people wouldn’t understand if they don’t know you well. That’s the thing.
[00:12:35] Ramit: Yeah, but actually I think that when I see somebody who has like a crazy way that they spend money, I actually admire it, as long as they can afford it. I’m like, “Oh, you spend this much on clothes or you spend that much donating.” Whatever it is. I’m like, “That’s cool if you can afford it.” The more dialed in your Rich Life becomes, the more weird your finances will become. And that’s normal. It should be. The more unique you create your own vision. So I think we’ve done that together progressively over many years.
[00:12:45] Cass: Yeah, definitely.
[00:12:47] Host: I want you each to talk about what you did leading up to this podcast because it highlights how different your personalities are.
[00:12:50] Ramit: Yeah. Tell them, Cass.
[00:12:52] Cass: Yes. So we had a party this weekend at our place, and I thought it would be fun to have these finger tattoos available to everyone except I was the only one who used them. And they came on and they were so light. So I was like, “I’m just going to put them on all my fingers.” So I did, and then last night I spent an hour trying to get them off and I was like, “Oh, well. It’s fine”
[00:13:03] Ramit: She looked at me and she goes, “Babe, they’re not coming off. These are not coming off. What should I do?” I’m like, “I don’t know.” I looked it up. It didn’t come off, and then she just goes, “Eh, whatever.”
[00:13:15] Cass: It’s fine.
[00:13:16] Ramit: I’m like, “Babe, they roll tight on your fingers. They’re going to see, everyone.” Looking like a felon. Hold that up. Look at this.
[00:13:23] Cass: I probably should have read the instructions before, because these are supposed to last two weeks.
[00:13:29] Ramit: She did it two days before we shoot. Anyway, perfect example. You’re like, “Whatever.”
[00:13:35] Cass: Go with the flow. It’s fine.
[00:13:37] Ramit: I’m like, “Did you plan it out? What’s in the calendar?” I would never.
[00:13:42] Cass: You even told me last night, “I don’t even use any body products that are new. I don’t eat anything out of the ordinary before I do–“
[00:13:50] Ramit: Yeah. I would never use a different shampoo the day before.
[00:13:52] Cass: It just never crossed my mind at all.
[00:13:54] Host: Yeah. I gifted these two a very nice shampoo and conditioner. I wasn’t expecting you to use it before the shoot. And then Cass told me she used it. Even I was like, “Girl, you couldn’t wait one day?”
[00:14:09] Ramit: Perfect example.
[00:14:11] Cass: Yeah, yeah. Very much so. Yes.
[00:14:13] Host: Okay. I want to rewind again. I know Ramit has spoken a lot about his experiences with money growing up, and we can revisit those, but I’m curious, Cass, what was your experience with money growing up?
[00:14:23] Cass: When I think of my parents and of my childhood, I think of just laughing all the time. And my parents really instilled in me to have a good sense of humor because life can get tough and all the things, but my parents both worked full-time. Their work ethic is like exceptional.
[00:14:44] I have a brother as well, so it was four of us in the household. And so whenever my brother and I wanted to do sports or whatever, they would find a way to make it happen. They were always so supportive. Because we didn’t travel a lot when I was small. We would just stay in California. I took road trips and stuff.
[00:14:02] But anytime I got the opportunity to go somewhere, they’re like, “Go. Do it. We’ll find a way to make it happen.” And so I’m always, always so grateful for that. But yeah there were never real conversations about money, but honestly I think it’s because my parents were so busy working all the time. They just needed to work and provide and all of that stuff. So I had a very amazing childhood. But yeah, we didn’t really talk about money too much.
[00:14:26] Host: Now, Ramit, talk a little bit about what your money experience was growing up.
[00:14:30] Ramit: My parents did not come here with a lot of money. They had an arranged marriage. My mom got on a plane for the first time and comes to America to meet my dad. They met. Seven days later, married, and they built this family, and sometimes they had to do stuff that we can’t really imagine doing right now. Quite frugal because they had to be.
[00:14:52] Host: Please tell the Disneyland story.
[00:14:54] Ramit: Oh my God.
[00:14:55] Host: Because I love it.
[00:14:56] Ramit: Oh my God. I was born in 1982, and when I was 14, 15 years old, something like that, we went to Disneyland. We didn’t go to Disneyland a lot, but we were living in northern California. Our family trip was typically, get in the minivan, drive down to Southern California, stop midway, open up a thermos, which my mom had made lunch and put it in there.
[00:15:22] We wouldn’t eat out at a McDonald’s. Too much money. And then keep going and stay with our family in Southern California. That was our trip. This time we went to Disneyland. Disneyland is expensive, but my dad loves a good deal. So we get to the front, and we know that something’s going on because he goes, “Stay there.”
[00:15:44] But I wanted to listen. Not only does my dad pull out his state ID, not only does he pull out his AAA discount and stack that on top, my dad pulls the most legendary move I’ve ever seen. He pulls out a check from 1982 and he says, “Resident, Los Angeles, here you go.” Gets the resident discount for all of us.
[00:16:06] I said, “Dad, how did you keep that check for 15 years?” He never answered. He just smiled. So we all went to Disneyland that day. Amazing. There’s something very romantic about, they had to find a way to have their kids have a nice time, and that’s what they had to do.
[00:16:21] Cass: That’s one of my favorite sayings that your mom says. There’s always a way. And she and your dad were always very creative.
[00:16:30] Ramit: Very creative I later found out my mom was calling the soccer league, like, “Hey, we can’t afford the fees. What can we do?” And they were like, “If you chalk the fields before the game, we will like wave the fee.” My mom was freaking chalking fields. We didn’t even know this. I didn’t know this till my 20s. Just to get us to be able to play soccer. That is crazy.
[00:16:50] And I think what my dad and that example and my mom and so many examples is like, we’re going to find the family joy in whatever we have to do. If we’re pulling over on the side of the road and eating lunch that my mom made, there’s joy in that. It’s not that we’re less than anybody else that we can’t eat at some restaurant. It’s just this is what we do. This is family. And I see that in so many lessons now. I look back on what my parents taught me, and I talk to them. But that’s a great example.
[00:17:21] Host: I want you guys to tell me about how you first met, and more importantly, what were your first impressions of each other?
[00:17:28] Ramit: I remember everything. I saw her. I knew I had to get to know her.
[00:17:32] Cass: I vividly remember that. And then I also knew like that day that something was different.
[00:17:42] Host: I want you guys to tell me about how you first met, and more importantly, what were your first impressions of each other?
[00:17:49] Ramit: Oh, I’ll go first. I remember everything. I saw her. I knew I had to get to know her. So we were at a friend’s barbecue. I saw her. She was in the kitchen. It was a daytime barbecue in New York.
[00:18:00] Host: Wait, was she cooking?
[00:18:01] Ramit: No, no, no.
[00:18:03] Cass: No, I don’t cook.
[00:18:04] Ramit: We were there, and I saw her from across the room. And I don’t remember what you were wearing, but I was like, “She’s not from New York.” Because she had a big smile and was just very animated and had a California energy. I’m from California, so I know that. And I went up to her and I said, you don’t have to tell me where you’re from. I already know you’re from California. Yeah.
[00:18:27] Cass: That was the line.
[00:18:28] Ramit: I saw her. I knew I had to get to know her, and quite a gamble saying that California thing. It turns out she is from California.
[00:18:36] Cass: I remember what he was wearing that day. He was wearing a red polo with khaki shorts, which he does not own anymore.
[00:18:43] Ramit: That got changed very quickly.
[00:18:44] Cass: Yeah. So he does not, but I vividly remember that. And then I also knew that day that something was different. Especially after we talked, I was like, “Something is here.” And I remember women telling me, “When you know you know.” And I was like, “Yeah, okay. Whatever.” But I think I knew that day that this was going to be like something more long term.
[00:19:08] Ramit: We started going out and I remember on the first date we went to [Inaudible] on 6th and 2nd. That was a Mexican cocktail bar. And I accidentally spilled an entire cup of water on her.
[00:19:25] Cass: Accidentally.
[00:19:25] Ramit: No, it was an accident, but it was actually amazing because she just laughed. She literally just laughed. And that was a moment where I think I just subconsciously registered I love people with a good sense of humor, but especially my wife. I knew that the person that I was with had to have a good sense of humor because it’s so important to me.
[00:19:49] And when I saw that, it was a total freak accident that I knocked it over, and she just laughed. So the first smile, the first time I saw you and then the laugh, I was like, “Oh, there’s something here.”
[00:20:00] Cass: Yeah. I was crying on the inside though, because I had on a good outfit that night.
[00:20:05] Host: So back when you first started dating, what would you have said back then you were looking for in a partner, and now that you’ve been together for a decade, what do you think actually matters?
[00:20:15] Ramit: I would’ve said sense of humor, interested in self-improvement and the same values. I think all those things are true. But I underestimated how important resilience is. It’s huge because things happen in life where it’s not in your control. And to be able to take it and grieve and process it and then get up the next day and still keep going is like, “Wow, that’s incredible.”
[00:20:50] I don’t know how you look for resilience. I truthfully don’t. I think I got really lucky, and I think that we have built trust together where sometimes you just need to lean on your partner and you need to just be like, “I can’t do this on my own. I need help.”
[00:21:05] Cass: As you say, resilience, that is so true. And I’m just thinking back to when we were dating, like how would you screen–
[00:21:11] Ramit: I have no idea.
[00:21:12] Cass: For that? You pour a glass of water on them at the bar.
[00:21:17] Ramit: Yes. Who do you– unknowingly. What a great test. But what would yours be?
[00:21:25] Cass: So I would say a sense of humor is very important to me. My parents are hilarious. They have a great sense of humor, and they really taught me that. And I would’ve said that back then. And you do. We laugh all the time. But now I think what is most important after everything we’ve been through is a positive outlook.
[00:21:47] Because I think of the things that we’ve gone through in our marriage, and it’s been really tough sometimes. And to have you being there, being so positive and forward looking and, okay, here’s what we need to get done, and stuff, has been really amazing. And think it would be really hard to be with someone who didn’t have that outlook consistently.
[00:22:09] Host: Who brought up money first when you were dating, and how did that go?
[00:22:13] Ramit: I probably brought it up, but I think you brought it up seriously. This is a big mistake. I made a big mistake on this one. So Cass had asked me early on for some help with her 401(k) or something. I was like, “You ever heard of a book called I Will Teach You to Be Rich? Read it.”
[00:22:31] I helped you with your, I think work finances. Because of that, I knew about your salary and basic expenses, but I didn’t tell you mine. Years into dating and she said, “It doesn’t feel fair.” You know everything about my finances, and I don’t know anything about yours.
[00:22:50] And I remember at that moment, almost that moment where the blood leaves your face. And I realized, I violated my own rule from Chapter 9 of my own book where I say, talk about it early. And it was true. And in the back of my head, I know why I didn’t share it earlier. I love understanding money. I love building the systems of money.
[00:23:12] I love earning and spending money, but I don’t like talking about the specific details of my own money. And so I remember we had one of the best conversations we’ve ever had where I was like, “Here it is.” And it felt weird because I had never told anyone except professional people who need to know certain numbers. But I also felt really proud.
[00:23:35] I felt really proud because what I had built took a lot of work, a lot of dedication, a lot of luck. And to be able to share that, it meant that we could create a life that most cannot imagine. And the questions are different. It’s like, what do we want to do in our Rich Life? So it felt amazing.
[00:23:59] Host: Can you help me understand something? Just because if I were in your shoes and I had a big bank account, I wouldn’t feel afraid to tell my partner my money. I assume it would be people in the opposite situation. So can you help me understand why you were resistant to share your numbers for so long when they were technically healthy numbers, if you know what I mean?
[00:24:18] Ramit: I’m a public figure, but in many ways, I’m very private. And it was only when Cass pointed out that I had not proactively, which I regret that, that’s when I started to open up. And then I think that was what allowed us to start connecting more.
[00:24:33] Cass: Yeah. The funny thing is, when we met, I had no idea who he was, what he did, anything. And I think I asked you, “Oh, what do you do?” Because people ask that in New York. And you’re like, “Oh, I’m an author.” And then that was it. And so you were very modest about everything.
[00:24:47] But after he had shared that with me, I was like, “Wow, he’s worked really hard to get to that point.” And as a business owner now, I’m like, “It totally makes sense.” I would probably have done the same thing and approached it the same way. So it also helped me have a lot of empathy too.
[00:25:02] Ramit: I appreciate that.
[00:25:04] Host: I want to talk about the proposal a little bit.
[00:25:06] Ramit: We were dating pretty seriously, and it was very clear we were both in this for the long term. We loved each other. We had met each other’s families. And we sat down. We still have the Google calendar invite, and it was all these agenda items. And she goes, “There is one other thing. I would like to be engaged by Q1 of next year.”
[00:25:29] And I was like, “Did you just speak in financial quarters? Because you are truly the dream woman of my life.” And that’s exactly what happened. And she had made it clear like, this is when I want to be proposed to.
[00:25:43] Host: Wow.
[00:25:43] Cass: And then I also had sent him an email with rings that I liked.
[00:25:48] Ramit: Thank God. I love that.
[00:25:49] Cass: So I detailed like, “I like this cut. I like this medal. Do what you want with this, but here’s some details to help guide you.”
[00:25:57] Ramit: I love that. That made it so easy.
[00:25:59] Host: All right. So how did he propose, Cass?
[00:26:01] Cass: Oh, it was very special and very thoughtful. He said to me, “We’re going to go do a cooking class.” And he’s like, “Wears something nice.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.” The spidey sense starts to go up.
[00:26:14] Ramit: Wait, what? I didn’t know this. What the hell?
[00:26:17] Cass: Because we had talked about getting engaged and all this, so I knew it was coming at some point. And then I had my nails done. I was all ready to go. And we did. We went into Little Italy and you had arranged a baking class, and then there was a back room, but I could see through the curtains that there was like a table and some flowers on it and stuff. So while things were baking, Ramit was like, “Oh, follow me back here to this room.”
[00:26:42] And I knew. I was like, “Oh my gosh, it’s coming. It’s coming.” And he did. He proposed then, and that was very special. And so he had to arrange a photographer, so we went out to do photos. We came back, and he flew my parents in and his parents and sisters and brother were there and all of our friends. And we had a party that night, our engagement party. And so it was really special.
[00:27:05] Host: Wow.
[00:27:06] Ramit: Yeah. That was an awesome day.
[00:27:07] Cass: It was very thoughtful.
[00:27:51] Host: Cass, you mentioned you had a scarcity mindset around money, and now you have an abundance mindset around money. Can you share what kind of inner work you’ve had to do to make that transition?
[00:28:02] Cass: Yeah. It was a lot of work, and I think it was just a lot of going inwards, honestly. Why am I thinking this way? Do I really believe I can’t earn money, or I don’t deserve X or Y? And so the journaling and the mantras that I would repeat to myself over and over really helped, but it was a lot of introspection, and that was really illuminating for me because I thought when you’re in a marriage everything should just flow and it works and all this stuff.
[00:28:36] Where in reality, I personally knew that I had to do a lot of work on my thoughts and what I believed and how that was going to impact us as husband and wife. And that has paid off so much. It was a lot of work. But in hindsight, I am so glad that I did it because that then has cascaded into me advocating for myself more in our relationship, outside of the relationship, being a better business owner. So many ways it has impacted my life.
[00:29:05] Host: I love it.
[00:29:06] Ramit: Wait, wait. What was the mantra that you said? I didn’t know this.
[00:29:09] Cass: Oh, yeah, there’s a lot of mantras.
[00:29:10] Ramit: What’s one?
[00:29:11] Cass: Money flows to me easily.
[00:29:14] Ramit: Oh.
[00:29:15] Cass: That is one. Yeah.
[00:29:16] Ramit: And the implication is I deserve money. Is that it?
[00:29:22] Cass: I can earn money. I can attract money. Money likes me, all of that, instead of the opposite.
[00:29:29] Ramit: I’m scarce.
[00:29:30] Cass: Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:31] Ramit: I better protect everything I have. Wow. That’s cool.
[00:29:33] Cass: Yeah. And it was so interesting too because working a corporate job for so long, you kind of know your path. You know the next promotion, what the salary is going to be, possible bonus. But now as a business owner, the sky is the limit. And so that transition mentally for me, going from corporate worker to business owner has really helped me as well become more abundant too.
[00:29:55] Ramit: That is so different than my approach because when we met, I had been running my own business for 15 years, and I knew if I want to make more money, here’s what I need to do. And if I want to take a three-week vacation or a five-week vacation, I can do that too.
[00:30:13] Cass: And I remember Ramit would be like, “Yeah, I’ll just make more money.” And I’m like, “What? You just make more money. Like, what?”
[00:30:19] Ramit: During COVID, I remember she told me this thing. I was taking a nap on our couch.
[00:30:25] Cass: It was 3:00 PM on a Tuesday.
[00:30:27] Ramit: I thought nothing of it. I like to take a nap. And then she later told me, she goes, “I saw you taking a nap.” She’s like, “You have all these people working for you and you’re on TV and this and that, and you’re just taking a nap.” She’s like, “That’s what I want.” I was like, “That’s actually awesome, because I do love the freedom to be able to take a nap.”
[00:30:46] Cass: Yeah, that actually really inspired me.
[00:30:48] Ramit: Yeah. And now you’ve done it.
[00:30:50] Cass: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:30:51] Ramit: It’s amazing. So I love that example that we both take from each other about like, oh, you do that in your business? What? That’s possible now because I think you’re abundant, and we’re both abundant.
[00:31:02] Cass: Yes, absolutely.
[00:31:03] Host: It’s been great staying with you and seeing you both sleeping in the middle of the day.
[00:31:09] Cass: We do love our naps.
[00:31:12] Host: Cass, for years you kept your money separate from Ramit’s. I want to understand what made you so hesitant to combine your money and then what was it that finally changed that made you willing to take the leap at last?
[00:31:28] Cass: Yeah, that has been quite a journey for myself. When I think back to when we were dating and then we got the prenup and newly married, I wanted to do it on my own, despite us being married to prove to myself and to prove to Ramit I can earn money. I’m fine on my own. I don’t need to ask for help.
[00:31:54] And I had a real sense of pride in that as well. And so just recently we started really digging into that a little bit more. And I started thinking independently, “Why am I thinking this way? Is it serving me? Is it serving us? How does Ramit feel about that as well?
[00:32:14] And it was very nerve wracking for me to go to him and be like, “Okay, I’m ready to do things jointly now. And I think Ramit had always, always pushed and advocated for us to do our money jointly. How was that for you to–?
[00:32:29] Ramit: Oh my God. I was like, “This is what I’ve been talking about for six years.” It felt awesome.
[00:32:35] Cass: And I think back to why I thought that way for so long, and honestly, it surrounded me. Growing up with girlfriends, you always want to keep money for yourself just in case. And Ramit is so awesome. He’s such a loving husband. I’m like, “Why am I not giving him a chance?”
[00:32:56] And so it’s been a little bit since we transitioned now, and I still get nervous from time to time, but we talk it through together and yeah, have good conversations about it. It’s still work in progress though. Still work in progress.
[00:33:11] Ramit: I think that’s pretty surprising to a lot of people because we talk about joint. And if you look on the internet, everyone’s like, when you’re married, everything comes together. But you mentioned this whisper in your mind about I need to have a little bit for myself. And it was what surrounded you. I think that’s really common. Really common.
[00:33:30] Personally, it was pretty hard. Emotionally, it was hard because I’m like, why are we not combining our finances? Our future is together, so how can we not? But then logistically, that was also very challenging because you’re a business owner. I’m a business owner. We’re going to have joint money, but we’re also going to have separate.
[00:33:54] And our setup was so complicated early on. It was like every quarter, if we have to do an analysis of our distributions, then we need to reapportion things because we’re paying proportionally, and we’re married. And it was so complicated, and I’m not trying to do this analysis myself.
[00:34:12] So it was so much work. And then having to go back to each other and say like, well, you got to transfer this much to this account is so burdensome, but for us to finally be able to put everything into that joint account feels awesome. It just feels natural because that’s our future. It’s together.
[00:34:33] Cass: Yeah. It’s funny because Ramit would do these podcasts and he’d be like, “Yeah, they didn’t want to put their money jointly together.” And I’m like, “Oh really? Oh.”
[00:34:42] Ramit: I wasn’t trying to send you a secret message.
[00:34:44] Cass: No, I know.
[00:34:45] Ramit: But in retrospect, we’re just like everybody else. We are living it. We have our own challenges. Years into getting married, we’re still tweaking things. And that gives me a lot of compassion because it’s hard. It’s hard. And you’re successful as an entrepreneur and very empathetic. And I’ve been doing this for 20-plus years, and it’s hard for us. So you know it’s hard for other people too.
[00:35:09] Cass: Yeah, we can really empathize with all the guests.
[00:35:12] Host: So now that you’ve taken that leap; how has it affected your relationship?
[00:35:17] Cass: Yeah, it has been positive to know that we’re working towards this together. If he does well, I do well, vice versa. And if you enjoy something, I enjoy it. And vice versa. It’s been really relaxing for me.
[00:35:33] Ramit: That’s a good word.
[00:35:34] Cass: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:36] Ramit: I feel like the day we decided, it immediately eased– immediately. There was a noticeable connection in our relationship that was there before, but we had to work to get it. It was like going from teammates to true teammates.
[00:35:54] Cass: Yeah. It’s like a new level of trust, I would say.
[00:35:58] Host: Oh, I love that description.
[00:35:59] Cass: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:00] Host: So there were times then when you were advising, Ramit, other couples to merge their finances complete when you guys hadn’t done that yet?
[00:36:06] Ramit: So I did talk to couples where I’m like, “Yeah, it makes a lot of sense for you to combine.” And ours was combined, but not–
[00:36:14] Cass: Not 100%.
[00:36:15] Ramit: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Cass: Yeah.
[00:36:16] Host: Got it. Okay. I want us to take the time now for you to walk us through your entrepreneurial journey and everything you had to go through to become the kind of woman who can sit here today, sit at the table, not just as Ramit’s romantic partner, but as a powerhouse in her own right.
[00:36:34] Cass: Yeah. It was quite a journey, and Ramit has been there along for the whole ride. I worked a corporate job in the fashion industry, 9 to 5. I was a fashion merchandiser and buyer, and then Ramit had an idea one day, and he said, “You’re really good at styling. Have you ever thought about starting a business?”
[00:36:55] And I said, “No way. I have never ever thought about it.” And then we went to a friend’s wedding, and I pitched my services there. I didn’t know how to do an invoice. I didn’t know anything. And I got a client that night, and then that was the beginning of Next Level Wardrobe. So it has been a really rewarding journey, and it’s been fun to have Ramit as my support system along the way.
[00:37:24] Host: Okay. You’re very modest.
[00:37:26] Ramit: Can I brag for her?
[00:37:27] Host: Yes, please.
[00:37:28] Ramit: Because I see the business. And first of all, the work that you do for your clients is amazing. You go out of your way. You’re not just delivering the minimum. You’re going above and beyond, texting them, helping them with their packing, doing in-person as well, but also the backend of the business is what is really impressive.
[00:37:49] So I saw you build it from the beginning. I remember early on, it was late at night. It was 11:00 PM. You normally were not awake that late. And I come out and you’re staring at your computer and basically close to crying.
[00:38:08] And I was like, babe, what’s wrong? You were like, “This [Bleep] website alignment won’t work.” And I was like, “Why don’t we go to sleep and we can worry about it in the morning?” And compare that when you’re starting out as an entrepreneur, every little detail feels existential. And now you have systems in your business that I don’t have.
[00:38:33] I’m like, “How’d you do that? What software? Who’d you hire for that?” And that’s when she’s like, “Don’t you dare hire them away because I’m working with them.” And the way that you deliver a creative service in a structured way is amazing. It’s very inspirational.
[00:38:49] Cass: Thank you. I will never forget that website night. I hold it deep in my soul. But yeah, it’s been fun, and Ramit has been so supportive along the way. He’s been very careful not to give advice when I’m not looking for advice and just looking for support. And one of the questions that we’ll always ask each other is, “Do you want support or do you want advice right now?” And that has been a really, really helpful question.
[00:39:12] Ramit: I think early on I realized you are not my student. You’re not in one of my programs. You’re my wife, and you are an entrepreneur. And that means it’s not my business. And I can watch, and sometimes early on I saw stuff, and I’m like, “Oh, I wouldn’t do it that way.” But I was just like, “Shut your mouth.” To myself. It’s not my place.
[00:39:34] And then now, I think when we talk about business a lot, we’ll ask each other questions. Hey, how are you doing this in your business? Or like, what are you doing for onboarding? And it’s a partnership. We are partners. We just run different businesses. And I think we’re equally asking each other for advice, or how do we do this or that.
[00:39:52] Host: Cass, how does it feel when people think that, you or simply riding on Ramit’s success?
[00:39:58] Cass: Oh, it pisses me off. It really makes my blood boil.
[00:40:02] Ramit: They have no idea how successful your business is, how much work you put into it.
[00:40:07] Cass: Just the fact that people may think that gets me really worked up– really, really worked up.
[00:40:16] Host: Cass, how does it feel when people think that, you or simply riding on. Ramit’s success?
[00:40:22] Cass: Oh, it pisses me off. It really makes my blood boil because I have worked in the fashion industry for over 25 years. I went to college for it. I have a postgrad. I have so much experience. I built multimillion-dollar retail businesses. And so just the fact that people may think that gets me really worked up– really, really worked up.
[00:40:49] Ramit: They have no idea how successful your business is, how much work you put into it, how much you care about your clients, and you go above and beyond.
[00:40:58] Cass: Yeah. Even my team, the way I hire people, the way I train people, the way we work with people, all of it is just so intentional and really was built upon my experience of working in the fashion industry. And so all those people will just never really understand, but it is, yeah, something that I’m very proud of that I’ve built and looking forward to growing it even more.
[00:41:24] Host: Okay. So Cass, since you are the one who has that engineering systems, mind, numbers, spreadsheets, how does that show up in how you two manage money?
[00:41:32] Ramit: Yeah. We do have biweekly money meetings, and we have figured out a time in our calendar that works well for us, which is Thursday mornings for 30 minutes. And every quarter, I’ll prep the numbers. So we have accountants. They send me the numbers. I love a good pivot table, the lookups, all the things.
[00:41:54] Cass: I’ll get the numbers ready. And then I’ll present how the quarter is looking. So do we have extra money via distributions? How are we looking according to our budget? And go line by line item.
[00:42:06] Ramit: Wait, hold on. Did you say budget? We don’t do a budget.
[00:42:08] Cass: Oh yeah, no budget. CSP, sorry.
[00:42:11] Ramit: Thank you. Every December, we have our Rich Life review. We talk about how much do we want to spend in these categories. And because we are regularly monitoring a few key numbers, we always know, hey, we’re a little bit over. It’s okay. We have time in the year to recover.
[00:42:27] We also have a bit of a complexity that many other couples don’t with business distribution. So sometimes we’ll make more than planned or not. And I think you do an awesome job of staying on top of that and us talking about it.
[00:42:41] Cass: Yeah. And one of the things I will bring up in our meetings is if my business has a distribution or yours and we have this extra money, how do we want to spend it? So those are fun conversations for us to have.
[00:42:55] Ramit: Although we do disagree.
[00:42:56] Cass: We do disagree. Yeah.
[00:42:58] Ramit: This is one area where we disagree. So I think you like to talk about things each time it happens. You would be like, “What should we do with our distribution?” I’m like, “I only want to talk about this once a year.” I want to do it by percentage. I want to set a rule and then I don’t want to talk about this until next December. That is my philosophy with money. Simplify, create a rule, and then never talk about it again.
[00:43:25] Cass: But also I think rules are meant to be broken.
[00:43:28] Ramit: Oh God.
[00:43:29] Host: Someone has to be the free spirit in the relationship, but it ain’t Ramit.
[00:43:32] Ramit: Set the rule, just the [Bleep] rule.
[00:43:33] Host: Stepped around hot sauce. Okay. Ramit, when we were roommates in our 20s, we used to have little tiffs every now and then about housework, so I’m curious now that you are part of a power couple, how is housework divided between the two of you?
[00:43:54] Ramit: Wow. This is a good question.
[00:43:55] Cass: I’ll take this one. So housework is one of those things that is really important in a relationship. I think of it as a business, and so it’s like, okay, how are we managing finances? How are we managing day to day housework, etc.? And I took a lot of it on, especially very early on, because I thought that was the way to make Ramit happy. So he can focus on work and accomplish all your goals, etc.
[00:44:28] But meanwhile, I was growing resentful because I’m like doing all the chores. I’m also working. I’m building my business. I’m trying to make you happy, friends, family, all this stuff. And so one point I was like, “I’m going to write a list and–“
[00:44:40] Ramit: In Tokyo, right?
[00:44:43] Cass: Yes. So I did, and I literally typed out 1 to 20, everything I was doing. I was emptying the dishwasher. I was holding laundry, listed it all out. And actually, after I wrote that list, I was like, “Damn, this is a lot of stuff that I’m doing.” You don’t know, right?
[00:44:58] Host: Please tell me you have a photo of this list.
[00:45:00] Cass: Oh, I think it exists. I think it exists. Yeah, it’s in Google Docs somewhere. And so I presented it to Ramit, and I was like, “I want you to know that this is everything that I’m doing for our household and been doing it for years. We need to have a discussion about this.
[00:45:19] And that led to a great discussion and some big breakthroughs because Ramit received it so well. He was like, “I had no idea that you were doing all this. How can we make it more equal, more fair?” So we literally went down 1 to 20, you do this. I do this. And it’s been really helpful.
[00:45:38] Ramit: I remember that conversation. I think Cass underplays how frustrated she was. You were really frustrated because I think it had been building up for you, but maybe you brought it up in certain ways but not like that. And I got to say, when you brought out the list, it was undeniable. It was like, oh, this is so obvious. This is so obviously unfair. You know what I mean?
[00:46:04] And the minute I saw that– I respond well to lists. Just put it in black and white, and I see it, and boom, we got to make a change. So it was like, okay, I’ll do this, this. What do you think about that? I think that was an awesome example of you, first of all, taking on all of that work for so long, I appreciate that.
[00:46:30] That shouldn’t have been the case. I should have been more equitable with that. But especially in that conversation, which I know was really hard for you and hard for me to hear, the way you presented it, I was like, “Oh, I totally get it, and this can’t continue for one more day.”
[00:46:45] Cass: Yeah. And those conversations are still ongoing. We just revisited the chore list a few weeks ago and we’re like, “How do we feel about this? Is there anything we need to re delegate?” And one of the reasons why I brought that up as well is because I realized I couldn’t do it all and I couldn’t do it all at the level I wanted to, so something had to give. And now we have a 1, 2, 3 dishwasher process that we use every day.
[00:47:14] Ramit: Can I talk about this? I [Bleep] invented this. It’s the greatest invention I’ve ever done. Okay, listen. We eat a lot of dishes every day.
[00:47:20] Cass: I’ve seen.
[00:47:23] Ramit: Yeah. That freaking thing fills up, right? The sink will be full. So I was like, “I need to apply my system’s talent to solving this problem.” So one day I said, “Babe, sit down and just mentally prepare yourself for the beauty and simplicity of this system. It’s called the 1, 2, 3 system.
[00:47:35] One, in the morning you wake up, the dishwasher will always be clean. You empty it. Two, throughout the day, we’re each going to put dishes in, and whatever we eat, let’s try to put two dishes in the dishwasher. So we’re always filling it up. Three, at the end of the night, whatever’s left, I’m going to put it in the dishwasher. Load it up correctly. Start the dishwasher, and repeat 1, 2, 3.
[00:47:50] I love this because when I open the dishwasher, I don’t want to have to wonder what’s in there. Is it clean? Is it dirty? It’s just one way of smoothing out our lives and keeping it simple. Nobody else cares about this [Bleep] system except me. I love it. I’m so proud of it.
[00:47:58] Cass: I care.
[00:47:59] Ramit: Thank you, babe. Thank you. So luckily we’re on the same page about how much we do ourselves, which is we still do chores? We were both raised doing chores. I know your mom, you would clean on Saturdays. And we had chores in our house growing up. I know that. But now there’s some stuff I just don’t want to do anymore, and I don’t feel any guilt about having somebody else and paying them very well and having them do a great job. So we do that as well.
[00:48:09] Host: Let’s talk about the stuff that you guys spend on guilt-free, and I especially want to hear about the stuff that other people would probably feel guilty about or that other people would think is really irrational.
[00:48:17] Ramit: I never felt those things in my life. Guilt. What is that? Why would I feel guilty for spending money?
[00:48:23] Cass: I love spending money on self-care. I freaking love it. If I could retire and just go full-time into self-care, I would do it. So acupuncture, sports massage, getting my hair done, manicure, pedicure. I love it so much, and I’m so unapologetic about it because in my 40s, my theme is to slow down. And so to really calm the nervous system, all that stuff. And what better way than to get a massage?
[00:48:55] Ramit: You do really love it. It is truly your money dial. A year and a half ago, we sat down for our Rich Life review, and Cass was like, “What do you like to spend money on?” I was like, “Oh, travel, fitness, clothes.” And she’s like, “Yeah, what else?” And I was like, “Huh?” And there’s this moment where I’m like, “This is what I talk about day in and day out, but what’s my answer?” Let me get back to you.
[00:49:18] Thought about it for a couple of days, and I came back and said, “What I really want is to have an apartment in New York that is beautiful, and we can leave our stuff there, and it’s a totally irrational thing to spend money on because we don’t spend a ton of time in New York. But I just love the energy here.”
[00:49:40] And she was like, “Then you should.” And so I did that. And honestly, it’s been amazing. And it’s a good practice. It’s a good reminder to practice the skill of spending money meaningfully. Meanwhile, there are other things I don’t really care about, and I always try to keep those minimized. But this one was a special one for me and for us.
[00:50:02] Cass: Yeah, it has been very special. And one thing we have recently discovered that we don’t like to spend our money on jointly is car. It’s a new car.
[00:50:12] Ramit: Oh, I don’t think anybody knows this.
[00:50:13] Cass: Yeah.
[00:50:14] Ramit: Okay. So last year we had a theme for our Rich Life, which is we want to live a life of beauty. So that was a one-year theme. And so we’re like, “What does it take to surround ourself with beauty?” It might be fresh flowers, which I know is something you love to spend money on. I think that’s awesome. And so Cass goes, “What about our car?” And I was like, “What about our car? It’s [Bleep] beautiful already. The Honda Accord.”
[00:50:42] Host: Oh, I remember that one.
[00:50:43] Cass: Oh yeah, Julie remembers.
[00:50:44] Ramit: 19 years. Impeccable condition.
[00:50:47] Cass: Really was.
[00:50:48] Ramit: The only thing that was a little old about it was inside the roof, the ceiling started to fall down. So I went to get it repaired. But other than that, it was perfect. And I go, “What are you talking about?” She goes, “If we’re following the theme, we should probably practice spending money on the things we love.” So I said, “You know what? You’re right. I still love this car. It runs perfectly.”
[00:51:08] It had 150,000 miles, but let’s do it. So first I was like, “I want to give this car to somebody who needs it.” So I started looking for like, single moms in LA or somebody who truly needed it. It was actually pretty hard to find. Finally, we have somebody in our network who said, “You know what? I know these guys. They just got in an accident. They’re young. And they work hard. They need a car.
[00:51:35] So I went to talk to them. I got the car all detailed and ready to go. And I went outside, and I said, “How you guys doing? I heard you guys got in an accident. And they were like, “Yeah.” I said, “What do you think about that car?” I pointed at the car. It’s gleaming. And they go, “All right.” I said, “Here.” And I handed them the keys. I said, “It’s yours.” And they started crying.
[00:51:54] Cass: Yeah, it was really sweet.
[00:51:55] Ramit: And so I gave that car feeling very proud. It was the first major purchase I ever made right out of college. It was meaningful to me. I really picked the best car. I negotiated for it. And now to be able to give that to somebody else, like, carry on. Meanwhile we went to lease a new car. I had never leased before. We were like, “We want electric.” All we honestly wanted was Bluetooth. We didn’t even have Bluetooth in our car.
[00:52:21] Cass: That was my only wish, Bluetooth. Because in the Honda we would just blast our speakers on the phone, on our iPhones.
[00:52:29] Ramit: Literally, the cell phone. We listen to Spotify off the cell phone. So we find this electric vehicle. It’s great. We get it. It has all the features. It has a massage, and it has 50 million cameras. And we’re like, “Whoa, this is crazy.” And it’s been over a year. It has 3,000 miles on it. We looked at each other a few months into it and we were like, “Do you care about this car?”
[00:52:58] And we were both like, “No.” And we want to get rid of it. Especially Cass because she ran the numbers to find out how much it costs all in all per month, and she was like, “Look at how much it’s costing us.”
[00:53:11] Cass: It was double than what we originally thought.
[00:53:13] Ramit: It’s called phantom costs, my friends.
[00:53:15] Cass: Yeah.
[00:53:16] Ramit: And we just realized we don’t care about that nice of a car. We’re perfectly happy having–
[00:53:21] Cass: Yeah. I just need Bluetooth. That’s it.
[00:53:22] Ramit: And I was like, “Should we go and buy that Honda Accord back? But I think it was actually a great realization for us, the fact that we tried it. We’re willing to try things and they don’t always work out. We make sure we can comfortably afford something when we try it, but it’s actually cool to know that there are things that we like and things that are not important to us.
[00:53:45] Cass: Yeah, it was a big realization for us because we were both so excited about it, and yeah, it just turned out it’s just not our thing.
[00:53:53] Host: Are there any other examples from recent times where you’ve caught yourselves not taking or following Ramit’s money advice?
[00:54:00] Ramit: I mean we spend more than certain guidelines on absolutely. Guilt-free spending.
[00:54:10] Cass: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We love our guilt-free spending, so we will work very hard to make sure that bucket is full.
[00:54:17] Ramit: That’s a good point.
[00:54:19] Cass: Yeah, if that means I have to do extra sales calls or you have to do another launch, or whatever it is, we will work really hard because we enjoy our guilt-free spending a lot.
[00:54:32] Ramit: I never ever want to get close to the red line. I won’t even get into that area. But as long as it’s comfortable, I’m like, “Let me make some mistakes. Let me learn from it, etc.” With our wedding, thinking way back to that, I had been saving since I was in my 20s, before I even met Cass. I went way over plan.
[00:54:53] But I was like, “So what? It’s fine. I have the money. I don’t need to be so tiny and detailed about going over.” However, with the big things in life, I still want to be like very con– that’s why we talk a lot about percentages of contribution and investment, stuff like that.
[00:55:12] Host: I’m shocked right now because you have been saving for your wedding since your 20s, but you were still willing to make that bet with me on who would get married first.
[00:55:20] Ramit: Oh yeah. Can we talk about this freaking bet? I made so many bets when I was in my 20s with friends.
[00:55:28] Host: That he lost.
[00:55:29] Ramit: I pretty much lost all of them. I lost pretty much every single one. It was the loser who’s going to get married first has to present an Ed McMahon-sized check at their wedding to the other person. So we made this bet in our early 20s. I don’t know if you thought I forgot, but I never forgot. I track all my bets. And at our wedding, I freaking pulled out this humongous check, and we have a photo because I surprised you. What did you think when I showed you this thing?
[00:55:56] Host: I had forgotten the bet, so I was surprised. But I also wasn’t surprised because you do always make good on your bets because we’ve had enough over the years. So everyone knows, I haven’t cashed that check yet.
[00:56:09] Ramit: I think I’ve lost like tens of thousands of dollars in those stupid bets. Oh God.
[00:56:14] Host: I want to know what’s the most valuable thing you’ve learned about money, love, or life is from each other.
[00:56:20] Cass: Mm. I would say from you, definitely abundance. Because Ramit was always like, “There’s a way. We can do it. We can earn more money. We can do this. We can do that.” And you got that from your parents as well. They instilled that in you. And so I think just seeing the world from that point of view has been really eye-opening for me.
[00:56:46] Ramit: Mine would be that I’ve learned from you is, the importance of like, how do you feel? How do you feel? How do I feel? I think for a lot of times I didn’t know how I felt. I knew what I thought. I’m intellectual, but I didn’t know how I felt. And learning that, it’s like developing a new palette. And it has really changed the way that I relate to people a lot.
[00:57:15] It’s softer and more abundant. But you know what? I don’t want to be lectured too. There are areas of my life I’m trying to improve. And if somebody came into like, look at the five ways you can radically change, sometimes you just want to be heard. And I think you have taught me to really lean into that.
[00:57:34] Cass: Ramit, definitely has grown into his softer side. And so behind closed doors, you do like to be the little spoon.
[00:57:44] Ramit: I do love that.
[00:57:46] Host: Whoa, I was not expecting to learn this today.
[00:57:48] Ramit: Little spoon is the way to go.
[00:57:49] Cass: He does love the little spoon.
[00:57:51] Ramit: I’m in touch with my own masculinity to say that.
[00:57:54] Cass: After we talk about our feelings, I’ll become the big spoon. But yeah, it’s been a true joy to see him develop emotionally and really get in tune with feelings and also ask for what he wants. And so, yeah, that’s been really cool to see.
[00:58:10] Ramit: I’m a teddy bear.
[00:58:12] Cass: Yeah. Look it.
[00:58:12] Ramit: I’m a teddy bear.
[00:58:14] Host: I love that story. Cass, I want to hear from you what it is like living with an optimizer. And also, second, is there anything that you do a little bit differently that perhaps drives Ramit a little bit crazy?
[00:58:26] Cass: Oh yeah. So living with Ramit, he definitely loves his routines and systems. And a good example of this is he will put things back exactly where– so if he were to close his eyes, he could walk into that room and pick it up.
[00:58:42] Whereas I’m like, “Oh, it’s fine. It’s over here. It’s over there.” And so stuff we share jointly, he’ll be like, “Hey, where’s that fill in the blank?” And I’m like, “Oh, I think it’s over here, but it’s over here.” And it drives him–
[00:58:55] Ramit: I’m getting so mad listening to this right now. I’m getting so stressed out.
[00:58:59] Cass: You’ve gotten more patient with it, but he used to get really upset by it.
[00:59:04] Host: I want you to look at each other now and give your partner one piece of money advice that you think would help improve either their lives or your lives together, or the quality of the relationship.
[00:59:18] Ramit: Damn. Okay. You go first.
[00:59:22] Cass: Lighten up on the rules a little bit.
[00:59:26] Ramit: Okay. That’s never going to happen. Let me go into your bathroom with all those bottles with a large garbage bag and clean out 75% of them. Let me just clean it out, please.
[00:59:42] Cass: No, that’s never going to happen.
[00:59:46] Host: Rapid fire round. Rapid fire. Who has the bigger closet?
[00:59:51] Cass: He does.
[00:59:53] Ramit: Me.
[00:59:53] Host: What is something you absolutely refuse to spend money on?
[00:59:55] Ramit: What’s that thing in the hotel rooms? Mini bar.
[00:59:59] Cass: Oh, mini bar. Yeah, that’s true.
[01:00:03] Host: Who’s more likely to impulse buy?
[01:00:04] Cass: You, with the gadgets.
[01:00:07] Ramit: Clothes, maybe.
[01:00:08] Cass: Yeah.
[01:00:10] Host: What is the biggest splurge that you regularly make for your health?
[01:00:13] Cass: Personal trainer. Yeah.
[01:00:15] Host: Who’s more disciplined about their diet?
[01:00:17] Cass: Ramit. I like chocolate.
[01:00:21] Host: Your home in New York that we are all staying in right now catches on fire and you can take three things out of it. What are those three things going to be?
[01:00:28] Ramit: I don’t really care.
[01:00:30] Cass: My computer.
[01:00:31] Ramit: Oh yeah.
[01:00:31] Cass: You and my blankie. Yes, I have a blankie.
[01:00:35] Ramit: Go ahead, open it up.
[01:00:39] Cass: No, keep moving.
[01:00:40] Ramit: No, no. We talked about [Bleep] little spoon over here. Care to follow up, Julie?
[01:00:47] Host: These are supposed to be rapid fire.
[01:00:47] Ramit: [Bleep] this rapid fire?
[01:00:50] Ramit: Dial in. Mike Wallace, get in on this. You have to follow up, please. Okay, I’m taking the mic. What’s a blankie?
[01:00:57] Host: This is the hostie.
[01:00:58] Ramit: I know. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. What’s a blankie?
[01:01:04] Cass: A blankie is something that comforts you during sad times.
[01:01:07] Ramit: You’re a grown woman and you have a blankie?
[01:01:09] Cass: I do. I love it too. And I would take it if there was a fire. Julie, do you have a blankie?
[01:01:15] Host: No, of course not.
[01:01:16] Ramit: What message do you want to share with other women who may have a blankie?
[01:01:20] Cass: It’s okay if you have a blankie.
[01:01:22] Ramit: I don’t really care. Stuff is stuff. I don’t really find much meaning in it.
[01:01:29] Host: So you would just grab your laptop and go–
[01:01:30] Ramit: Not even–
[01:01:31] Host: You wouldn’t grab your laptop, really?
[01:01:32] Ramit: It’s backed up.
[01:01:33] Host: Okay. So you’d grab nothing.
[01:01:35] Ramit: I would grab Cass, and I don’t know. Things are things. Yeah, I guess.
[01:01:40] Host: Okay. What’s one high priority life goal you haven’t achieved yet?
[01:01:45] Cass: For me, it’s how to give back. I have so many causes that I’m passionate about and I want to explore. So I think I get analysis paralysis a little bit on what cause is most meaningful and how do I go about it. But yeah, that’s something I want to explore over the next few years and dive into.
[01:02:00] Ramit: I was very fortunate to have a lot of scholarships that helped me get through college and grad school, and I was incredibly inspired by it. I tried to start a scholarship when I was younger. Crazy enough, nobody applied. So I have a big vision for giving back, and so we’ve been talking a little bit more about that. But that is something that is going to happen for sure.
[01:09:30] I want us to both be stewards of our money. I want us to be able to have fun talking about it. And honestly, I don’t always get it right. As we’ve discovered, we need that partnership. I don’t think it’s a healthy part of a relationship that one person– even if they are more experienced, or even if one person earns more money, I think it’s got to be both.
[01:02:44] Host: Thank you for taking us along with your Rich Life, and I loved hearing about everything from the spreadsheets to the splurges. And it’s been an honor just as a friend to see what can happen in life when people have a real partnership, real communication, and inspiring vision what you can build.
[01:10:15] It’s so much more than a rich relationship. It’s a rich life. So thank you for leading by example. Thank you for having me. And thank you for sharing so many personal stories today.
[01:03:15] Cass: Yeah. Thank you.
[01:03:17] Ramit: Thanks, Julie.
[01:03:17] Cass: Yeah, thank you.
[Narration]
[01:03:19] Ramit: I want to give a big thanks to Julie Nguyen, who did an amazing job hosting and asking tough questions that Cassandra and I have never been asked or answered publicly. Of course, I want to give a huge thank you to Cassandra, not only for coming on the show, but more importantly for working through money and creating a Rich Life together, which I love her for every day.
[01:03:42] I started this podcast to hear how real couples talk about money from behind closed doors. But being in the hot seat, I can tell you it is way harder than it looks. After our conversation, I was physically exhausted. I took the rest of the day off. I just sat on the couch. I have a whole new respect for the guests who come on the show and share the intimate details of their lives. So thank you.
[01:04:07] And I also realized something I didn’t expect. It feels good to talk about these things out loud. On a personal note, that was really hard for me. In my culture, we don’t share these things publicly. That’s one reason that it’s so rare to see Indian people on reality TV. It’s just not part of our culture.
[01:04:25] But I have learned through the work that I’ve been doing for over 20 years that talking about our challenges together with people who we trust, who want the best for us, can help us connect more deeply. Sometimes connect with our partner. Sometimes connect with ourselves.
[01:04:41] I wanted to record this to show you that even the guy who wrote two books on money talks about this every day, doesn’t have everything figured out, and that actually gives me a ton of compassion for the people who I work with. That’s why when people come on here and 50% of them don’t know how much they make, I get it. Because there are a lot of things in my life I don’t know even today. And I know how hard this stuff is because I’m living it. So is Cassandra. And that makes me appreciate you even more.
[01:05:09] My hope is that by sharing our story, you can see that in order to live a Rich Life, not everything has to be perfect and dialed in. You got to acknowledge what’s working, celebrate it, and then acknowledge what’s not and work on it together. Thanks for watching. I appreciate you, and I want to thank you for letting us share our story.
